Welcome to the premiere edition of “5 Questions With…”, where I’ll be posing 5 questions (was the title a giveaway?) to some interesting people from all walks of life, with a slate toward food, obviously.
The first in the series, I’m asking 5 questions to 3 Edmonton chefs, and seeing as I’m in the thick of my YEG Burger Odyssey right now, it seems fitting to ask these professionals all about burgers. I’m making them do all the hard work, so I get to sit back and enjoy the ride!
To get started, let’s meet the chefs that kindly answered my questions.
Chef Blair Lebsack- Owner and chef at one of Edmonton’s newest, and finest restaurants, Rge Rd.
Chef Kathryn Joel- Owner and Instructor at Get Cooking. Up your kitchen cred with some cooking classes with Kathryn.
Chef Paul Campbell- Chef and Co-owner at the delicious Cafe de Ville, with 2 locations in Edmonton and Sherwood Park.
Let’s get to it with question #1.
1. Tell me about your perfect burger. Do you like a thick steak-house patty, or a thin diner style patty? A neat and tidy burger, or a sloppy, messy, 3 wet-nap kind of burger?
Blair- Since this is the perfect burger, I like it thick, only one patty and very well seasoned, but have it taste like beef, not onion, not garlic, just beef. Then the toppings are where it is at for extra flavour. This is where it can be messy, the more toppings the better.
Kathryn- My ideal burger is big, maybe slightly bigger than it’s bun so that you can nibble off some of the meat from around the edges before you really dig in. And it’s a mess 3 wet-nap burger for sure …. but this is more about the juicy, perfectly cooked meat that’s been rested for 5 minutes before serving, than it is about slopping on a pile of sauce.
Paul- For me the perfect burger is all about the patty and bun combination. The patty has to be seasoned well, have great flavor and be complimented by the bun. As for a thick or thin burger I think that it all depends on the style. If you are expecting a sloppy burger then the patty better be nice and thick and juicy., but if you want a neat and tidy burger than you better stick with a thin patty. I prefer a thick sloppy, juices running down your fingers type of burger.
2. Have you found an outstanding burger in your travels? How about a favourite one in Edmonton?
Blair- The go to for burgers in Edmonton now is food trucks, I have had several good ones in Edmonton. But for burgers cravings (again it might be because I finished a long day of hiking or biking) I find some of the best to be in Canmore. The Drake has a great burger, always big and satisfying, also Iron Goat is one of the best.
Kathryn- It probably seems just wrong to recommend a British Burger, but I’m not talking Wimpy here! My favourite burger, anywhere, is to be found at Gourmet Burger Kitchen, a UK chain founded in the UK by 3 Kiwis and with the expert guidance of the amazing Peter Gordon. The burgers are made from 100% West Country beef, perfectly cooked and served in a Soft Sesame Bun. And don’t get me started on the deliciousness of their gorgeous chunky chips! And in Edmonton? Well …. I like the ones I make at home with my kids.
Paul- I very rarely order a burger when I go out to eat unless it really catches my eye. I think maybe I need to get out more. I had a pretty good burger at The Next Act Pub just last week, but I am partial to the one I serve at the Sherwood Park location of Café de Ville. It is an in house ground beef and Spolumbo’s chorizo sausage mix with caramelized onions right in the burger, a nice thick slice of white cheddar and is served on an onion and poppyseed bun.
3. Settle the debate: Is the flat-top the best way to cook burgers, or is grilling the way to go?
Blair- Grilling is the only way to go.
Kathryn- Grilled. No competition.
Paul- Flat-top
4. Do you have any tips for the amateur burger chef to improve their burgers at home?
Paul- Season them well, add spices and ingredients that will not only add flavor but add and help retain moisture. Bacon, caramelized onion and breadcrumbs are perfect examples of these. Grind up the bacon and add it into the burger. Don’t be afraid to add ketchup and mustard right into the mix, and season, season and season.
5. What’s your least favourite, or strangest burger you’ve had?
Some pretty interesting comments there, and it just goes to show that even trained chef’s have differing opinions on what constitutes the perfect burger. Personally, I prefer the flat-top for burgers, but I enjoy them both ways. More important to me than patty size, is that it not be overcooked and dry. Also, a great burger absolutely has to have a good, hard sear on it to get that delicious browning. Tons of cheese, plenty of condiments, and a bun that doesn’t get in the way of all that drippy goodness… that’s the burger for me.
Friends, now’s your chance to weigh in on your perfect burger, and the answers our esteemed panel of chefs gave us. Do you agree with Blair, that the PB&J burger is evil, or are you crazy for it? Do you love that Paul is grinding bacon into his burger, or has he lost his mind? And what about Kathryn and the medium rare burger?
Got here due to the “noise” on your other post on Bannock Burger vs Chic-Hog-Os. The first question/comment would be that of what is YOUR description of a “perfect” burger?
Based on the what was written by these three chefs, if I was in a restaurant where they head the kitchen, I would skip their burgers. Here is my reasoning:
1) Chef Blair says it is about the beef but then a bit of over-emphasis on the toppings was made. And, at the end, says no to sweet/savoury toppings. What’s the deal here?
2) Chef Kathryn. By the time you grind beef, it pretty much does not matter which cut you use. Just make sure to add enough fat to the mix to make sure it remains juicy. And what’s the infatuation with medium-rare burgers? Rather than medium-rare burgers made out of high-end cuts, why not just have a steak?
3) Chef Paul. That’s the description of a meatloaf, not a burger.
Agree with all of Kim’s comments.
My ideal burger would be 100% beef with a high fat content. Very loosely formed and seasoned with only salt and pepper on the outside right before cooking. Cooked smash style on the flat top. Light brioche style bun, processed cheese (probably a childhood thing), minimal toppings maybe 2-3 things max. Rather than pile 20 toppings on a burger I would rather have 2-3 small slider size burgers with a few different toppings on each.
I’m hoping this will lead to a new go to bun recipe http://www.chefsteps.com/recipe-development/brioche-burger-bun/
Great comments, Rob.
I’d agree on the loosely formed patty, the flat-top, and the brioche bun. I don’t even mind processed cheese if it’s on a greasy diner burger, but i’d pretty much always choose real cheddar if given a choice. More cheese is always better to me.
Thanks for the input!
Phil
Forgot to include my own burger:
Patty: Chuck or half chuck, half sirloin. Ground together with extra fact for a 85% meat, 15% fat breakdown. Add some salt and make 6 ounce patties. Cook them in a grill or cast iron pan (no preference), cooked through with charring on the outside.
Bread: I don’t necessarily have a preference for Kaiser buns or other types of buns – even sliced bread will work in a pinch. However, one thing is critical: It can’t be a chewy type bread.
Condiments: Either mayo or mustard on the bread (but not necessarily both). Ketchup would be a no for me. No cheese for me (unless I am making jucy lucy). Preferably no pickles, lettuce or onions (unless grilled). Thin sliced tomatoes are good, though.
Overall, if I want a burger, my preference is on the lines of less-is-more: A “simple” burger.
I can’t disagree with the patty or bread. As long as the bread isn’t chewy, I’m fine with it.
I tend to think a great aioli adds so much to a burger, so I like a lot of it. I also want a reasonable amount of cheese. Then double it. Pickles, lettuce, onions…. blah blah blah….. that’s all filler to me. It’s ok, but not essential.
Phil
Thanks for the comments, Kim. I love that the posts are inspiring such differences in opinions.
Phil
Great post!
I’m on board with a slightly pink burger if I trust where it’s coming from.
I have had so few truly memorable burgers before though so usually find making them myself is the best bet. (My dad makes this crazy deep fried burger is worth a shot also.)
Thanks Mandi.
Most of my favourite burgers have been in California for some reason. Not sure what the reason would be, but they seem to do burgers the way I like them. Slightly pink is the way to go for me too.
Have you seen on Diners, Drive-ins, and Dives when they had a deep fried burger that was battered? So nasty. Haha.
Phil
I think burgers are too much a personal preference to say one person is wrong and one right! I also think that from a butchers point of view burgers are a nightmare as I can use the best meat, correct fat ration and seasoning and then the cook who adds the heat can destroy it no matter what it’s made of! Personally, lamb burgers are my fave as the fat content of lamb is higher naturally throughout the meat so a juicy burger is an easier task.
I totally agree. Lots of people do lots of things with burgers that wouldn’t be the way I’d go, but everyone is entitled to like what they like.
I love that you can bring the butchers perspective to things! My dad is from England, and he always says that the lamb here is more like mutton, and doesn’t taste the same as the lamb he had growing up. Do you find that too, being a fellow Brit?
It’s great to see you commenting again, Elyse! Thank you.
Phil
You can’t beat English spring lamb! I agree that the lamb here tastes older. I think your tough grass is what’s to blame. It may rain all year round in England but we have nice lush grass. Butchered some Tangle Ridge Ranch lamb and it was the tastiest lamb I have eaten so far in Canada, small but tasty!
He always goes on and on about the eggs being so tasteless here too. I thought he was exaggerating until I had eggs in the U.K. Deep, rich yolks and much more flavourful than most i’ve had here.
Phil
I’m loving this burger blog series. I’ve always appreciated Phil’s perspectives and his blog posts but this series seems to have sparked lots of conversation via the comments. Which goes to show how the “ideal burger” really is personal preference.
Kim, have you checked out the other posts in this series? You were wondering about Phil’s criteria for a burger and I believe he outlines it in the Prologue. I agree with you in terms of fat=flavour but I’m not sure I understand why you think Chef Blair’s description is contradictory. Perhaps becuase his description closely mirrors my wants in a burger but I thought it was pretty clear.
For me, a great burger is made with beef. Beef beats out all other meats when it comes to a burger. I like my bun soft but must hold up to a juicy, runny patty. Like Chef Blair (and seems like you too) I don’t like ingredients inside my patty because it takes away from the beefiness but when I make a burger at home I top it with mayo, bacon, grilled onions, mushrooms, avocado, tomatoes, jalapenos, and sharp aged cheddar. I don’t find the toppings to overshadow the beef… but whenever I’ve had stuffed burgers I find the ingredients do take away from a juicy patty. I’d echo the sentiments on a PBJ burger. I know many Edmontonians love the version from Next Act. Took away from the beef for me. But again to each their own.
I’ve mentioned it a few times already but having a juicy patty is crucial for me… with that in mind I do prefer a medium burger and I’ll only get a medium or medium-rare temp if I can trust that the chef knows where the beef comes from. Hence why I also agree with Kathryn (and Kim) in terms of selection of cuts… allows the chef to customize the fat content and trust in the quality of the beef.
Anyway, love this discussion. Hope to read more burger posts soon.
Thanks so much Carmen!
I’ve got to say, I’m loving seeing all the different opinions on burgers. I’m also enjoying writing about something I’m passionate about. It makes the task so much easier.
Thanks for reading and commenting as always,
Phil
Carmen, it was a case of TL;DR. Unless there was a direct link, going through several pages that references a previous page… Well, you get the idea.
My perceived contradiction from Mr Blair is that he starts of by saying it is about the beef but then goes overboard about the toppings. When you start overloading a burger with too many toppings, in my experience, too many things are going at the same time and, rather than adding to the overall experience, it starts to take away.
I didn’t delve too much about this in my initial comment: burgers are (historically) a low-end food as the basis is a cut that is not used extensively. Following trends (mainly US trends), restaurants here in Edmonton have been trying to make them fancy (Deluxe, I am looking at you) to the point that it is no longer about the beef and bread. It is now about other ingredients added, the toppings and the sides. The irony is that places such as Five Guys, Smashburger (namely, chains) and small shops such as Burger Joint (in the south side) are the ones that are keeping things honest in a way (and “cheap” I must add). Of course, if fancy burgers are how you roll, then, the more power to you. I just want you to ask yourself: where is the line where it is now more about those side ingredients/toppings and less about the beef patty (what I consider to be the core of a burger)?
Phil, sorry if it feels I am hijacking your post. I love me some good basic burger but these trends are making them more and more difficult to find.
Kim, nothing wrong with a little conversation here… it’s exactly what the comment section is for. Comments from differing viewpoints are what make it interesting to read.
Having said that, I agree with some of what you’re saying, but not all. The concept of the “simple” burger is pretty vague, and what I consider simple might be still too much for you. I think rather than saying more toppings are bad, I’d say to choose your toppings wisely. I add things that compliment or contrast the meat, and stay away from stuff that tend to muddle things up. Putting stuff like foie gras on my burger isn’t doing anything for me. I’m not down with this $30 burger business.
I think you interpreted Kathryn’s comment differently than I did. I don’t think she’s saying grind up some tenderloins and make a Rockefeller burger. More like use a good quality beef. I couldn’t agree more with that. In my opinion, the quality of the butcher plays a big roll here too. The difference in what I get from Acme Meats as opposed to most grocery stores is pretty substantial.
Thanks for keeping it interesting.
Phil
Absolutely Phil, I would never make a burger with Tenderloin! Chuck is my preference, I like some fat in my burger. But buy from a proper butcher if you can, know the provenance of your meat and ask your butcher to grind it, so that if you do cook it on the rare side you know where it was butchered and by who and you won’t be worried about contamination.
I really enjoyed the Mosh Burger Pop-Ups. I thought their burgers were pretty tasty: lots of crispy brown bits, medium rare beef, some onion and toasted, buttered bun. Yum!